So the sleep through the night thing was just a fluke. He's back to his usual wake up once to feed and maybe fuss a few times throughout the night. I'm ok with his waking up to feed. If only he'd stop the fussing bit when all he wants is his pacifier, I'd be ok. However waking up multiple times per night and then working all day is making me exhausted. I can't even nap as I'm working all weekend (I'm blogging on my lunch hour today). I'm sure by Thursday, my 11th day in a row to work I'll be ragged. My tired state is also making me cranky and quite bitter to R who sleeps all night (well minus the million trips to the bathroom) and also naps with Hudson during the day. If one of the boy's fussing sessions happens to coincide with a bathroom break for her, she'll get up and put his pacifier back in his mouth but that rarely seems to happen. Usually he fusses right after she's gotten back in bed. It's quite difficult for her to get up and out of bed so I'm the one that goes...hence being tired and hence being cranky and getting resentful.
I do a lot of work with breastfeeding including being the pediatric physician breast feeding leader (basically I'm the rep for my clinic and hospital to a region wide breast feeding committee), so I know a lot about it. I knew it would be hard at first but I also knew that I was/am 100% committed to Hudson (and hopefully the other 2 kids) getting breast milk. However, I had no idea what an obsession it would become. My problem stems from the fact that I'm not a super producer of milk. I make barely enough despite all my efforts. I know that I'm doing more than most women to keep my milk up - here's my daily schedule:
7:30am - feed Hudson, both breasts, he usually takes about 30 minutes total
9:30am, 12:30pm, 3:00pm - pump at work - with my 3 pumpings I get about 10oz total. During this time Hudson gets 2 5oz bottles (one at 11am and one around 3pm).
6:00pm - get home from work and feed Hudson from the boob - again he takes both breasts and empties them out
7:45pm - BF Hudson again from both breasts to put him to sleep
10:00pm - pump before going to bed - maybe I get 2oz
3:00am - Hudson wakes up and eats - variable time and amount, we usually both fall asleep during this (I feed him in the glider in his room)
4:00am - I go back to our bedroom and pump to empty my breasts - might get about 3oz, sometimes 4oz (I make the most milk while I sleep)
So needless to say, I think I'm stimulating and emptying my breast enough. I'm also taking fenugreek which hasn't really made a difference. It's just so discouraging to hear about women who pump for 5 minutes and get bottlefulls. I pump for a minimum of 10 minutes but usually 15 to up to 20 minutes 3 times during my work day to get 10oz. Lately Hudson seems to be hungry. He's getting pissed off at the feeding before bed that there's not much milk in the boobs (usually it's been less than 2 hours since his feeding from when I get home from work so they haven't filled back up yet). He sucks for a few minutes, empties out the breasts and then gets pissed. Instead of suckling for a while to maybe get another let down, he sucks 2-3 times, nothing comes out, he unlatches and gets pissed. So twice this past week I've given him another 3oz EBM bottle.
I know that babies are more efficient than any pump so that he could be getting more out than I am able to pump. I also know that the most important thing is that he is gaining weight. He has his 4 month well child check up tomorrow. I'm so anxious to see what his weight is. Will his pediatrician show us a growth chart that has flat lined and scowl in disappointment? Ok his pediatrician rocks and he would never scowl but I'm still anxious. Hopefully if all looks good tomorrow, I'll be reassured and not worry so much. I still feel like I'm in the initial newborn period when every drop of breast milk is golden.
Any suggestions from you experienced breast feeders out there? Anyone know where I can get some domperidone?
About Me
- Steph
- Wife, Mom, Daughter, Pediatrician, Breastfeeding-baby-wearing Mommy to 3 beautiful babes that took us a long time to get with many ups & downs along the way.
20 comments:
hey there--i haven't commented often, but read. hope, my DW, was the breastfeeder, and she had huge supply problems due to boob shape and lack of ducts (i forget what this is called now). she'd pump 3 times while at work full time and get maybe 12 ounces total (that was on the domperidome). fenugreek did nothing for her, or mother's milk, or goat's rue.
we ordered the domperidome online from new zealand, i think. at first we were a little freaked out, but the website seems to be legit. it takes a little while for stuff to arrive, and there is the chance it could get axed at customs since it's not FDA approved, but we never had any problems.
i'll ask hope for the website...and we still have some leftover here (holding onto it with the hopes that we will be using it for another kid someday here), and we could send you a box just so you can get your hands on some sooner than later.
i don't know if you have an account at IVP, but i know R. does, so i will PM you and/or her there with more info, okay?
finally, i'm sorry for the disappointing pumping results. i know from hope how hard it is to not have oodles of milk from all of your hard work.
I am not a mom, but a great resource is Ask Moxie. Also, check out Kellymom.com. I hope these help you and good luck. Hudson is a cutie!
Amy
Oatmeal for breakfast--oats stimulate milk supply. Have you tried breast compression? I was usually able to get a little more out that way (my first two babies were early so I spent a lot of quality time with the pump). I was never a super-producer either; my OBGYN put me on Reglan for it (very similar to domperidone), but watch out as it may play hell with your seratonin levels (never seemed to make me any more miserable than your average mother of a preterm baby who has to be awakened and basically tortured to get them to eat EVERY TWO HOURS and THEN pump, clean the pump, go back to bed for like, 45 mins and start all over). My first baby never did master BFing so I had the added step of feeding with the bottle before pumping; my second did and BF'd exclusively for three and a half months although weight gain was dicey at first and I was pumping a TON and only ever produced about 3 oz per session (my all-time record was 4--big stinkin' deal--I remember visiting my baby in the PCN and there was a mom of a former micropreemie there who would come in before work with her pumpings from overnight--usually two 8 oz bottles and sometimes another part-way filled, and I had many a black thought about her and her miraculous boobs); at three and a half months that one developed severe milk allergies but did okay (still puking a ton but gained weigt adequately) on soy. I was a multiple-letdown kind of girl--I'd have three or four small ones instead of one big one, so you might try pumping five mins and resting five mins to see if you get more that way. And not that it helps you much because I don't see what you could really do about it, but one of the many LCs I saw with #2 trying to get our latch perfected and my supply boosted said "sleep makes breastmilk--just stay in bed and do nothing but feed your baby for a couple of days; have someone bring you meals on trays and keep a big pitcher of water by the bed!" Great advice that helped me a lot, but then I wasn't working at the time...I really admire your commitment to BFing, and your ability to do so AND work full-time on what sounds like just about NO sleep! My third was severely protein-allergic and couldn't tolerate my milk, partially or fully-hydrolyzed formulas, soy...finally we ended up with esophageal erosion, an NG tube and Neocate, which was MIRACULOUS stuff--my eight-pound four-month-old, who was born at seven pounds and wasted down to barely five at one point, gained a pound on the stuff the first week! That one now has a g-tube, and at two we're still struggling to encourage oral intake and on Neocate 1+, but elemental formula is miraculous stuff!!! Since my boobs were no longer needed, I busted out the cabbage leaves and, bitter over the entire situation, tried going cold-turkey. On the second day, miserable, I pumped my enormously engorged breasts and extracted FOURTEEN OUNCES; could've kept going but didn't want to stimulate more production, just let off some of the pressure. I put it in a large baby bottle filled to the brim, screwed a clean nipple on top because I couldn't find a cap, and was tearfully trying to decide what to do with the stuff since dumping it down the drain seemed like such a SIN after working so hard to make it before. I called my husband for a pep-talk, and he talked me down, but when a went to dump the milk it was gone--I thought the sleep deprivation was making me lose my mind until my not-quite-two-year-old, who was still going to bed with a bottle of water, come up to me with an empty, milky-bottomed bottle, held it up, and asked hopefully "More?" LOL! That one had just been trialed on cows milk by our allergist and been pronounced outgrown of the dairy allergy, so over the next week while I finished drying up, the toddler was the happy recipient of a few more bottles--seemed kind of strange, since it'd been over a year since that one had had any breastmilk, but why waste it, right? And that was the ONLY week that one DIDN'T have an ear infection that winter (we went through three sets of tubes before getting one to "stick"). Sigh.
If C. could meet you at work with Hudson for a lunchtime feed instead of the pump maybe that would help? Good luck, and great job!
Ooops--I meant R.--I never can keep initials straight on peoples' blogs, LOL!
You are amazing. I don't know how you and Carey are managing to do all you do!
I know it probably seems impossible right now, but you need to try to get as much rest as possible. Is there anyone you guys can hire to help out some? I know Carey is SOOO pregnant but you are working so much... You guys need some help, and you are going to need it even more once the other babies come. You have to get your rest to be able to keep your milk up -- you even said you produce the most when you sleep!
Also, make sure you are eating enough. I have really noticed my supply decreases when I don't eat three meals and several snacks each day(and I'm still losing weight... go figure). Even if it is just stuff you can grab between patients -- bananas, trail mix, instant oatmeal, granola bars.
It may be an old wives tale but oatmeal really seemed to work for me when I thought my supply was getting low. I just ate it every day for breakfast and noticed an improvement in pumping output. I had oversupply issues to start with and an efficient eater who only wanted to nurse on one side per session so we just got used to feeding on one side which allowed me to pump the other side and get a stash amassed.
Since Hudson's last two feedings of the night before bed are so close together could you maybe just feed him on one side for each one? Not sure if if he'd be happy with that or if your supply would adjust correctly.
If things happen like they did with us, once he starts on solids and gets older it will be easier for you. With the food to satisfy her and getting more mobile and active, my daughter was less interested in nursing much during the day. It's actually like trying to nurse a hyperactive monkey now. On the flip side she is still getting up once at night to nurse (now 9 months old).
I second the kellymom recommendation, that website was so invaluable to me on many occasions.
I'm so sorry this is so difficult for you. I had such a hard time and Shaun was ALWAYS hungry and distressed. I eventually had no choice but to can the bf and we were both much happier and less stressed from it. However, it took me a long time to finally agree that it wasn't working for us. It made Ant so angry because she felt I was stressing our boy out unnecessarily.
You are an angel for trying so hard. I know how committed you are and I salute you for that. So best of luck with this. There HAS TO BE something you can do to increase that flow. I was also told maize increases supply.
As for the fatigue, I so understand. Ant would stay up till late and give Shaun his 11pm feed but then she'd come to bed and he'd be my problem to sort out. Since he's been sleeping through, she baths him and might give him his last feed but then it's up to me to put him to bed and even though she gets up at 5am, she doesn't even hear him when he wakes. It's tough going, but I know she doesn't mean any bad. I think we expect too much from them.
Remember though, Pip & Squeek will be here soon and then it will be her turn to get up all hours of the night. Leaving you to sleep peacefully, because by then Hudson will be sleeping better. This is the start of him sleeping through. Shaun had the same kind of patterns and now doesn't even stir until at least 4am. Hang in there girl, it DOES get better.
I'm not a mom, so I may not be much help, but I -am- the daughter of a doctor and I did go to a few years worth of medical school here in Mexico, so here goes...
Beer. I'm not saying get drunk mind you, but half a glass of beer apparently does wonders for milk production... and it's natural! None of all of that medical junk that you americans get shoved down your throat all the time.
If you mind the alcohol a lot, there's a thing called Levadura de Cerveza, which I'm pretty sure translates to Brewer's yeast... They sell that in pill form here in Mexico, and mothers here take it to help milk production.
Well, that's my non-medical advice. I mean, I may have studied allopathic medicine, but I seriously believe in a more natural approach to anything that has to do with child rearing. Besides, modern medicine is based on alternative therapies that became gospel after some time, so hey, why not try it the old way?
Hi there. I'm with Jamie - you need to rest. Once the twins arrive it's going to be bananas so you may as well get it now. Sorry to give you advice - so annoying particularly when you are so busy. M is breast feeding our twins & it has been an enormous process for her & yes the pumping has not been nearly as efficient as a hungry baby. Stress and lack of rest are killers for breast feeding as you know.
Hudson is very beautiful. I love his little chin.
Good luck with it all.
LG
Sounds like you have been doing everything you can, given the circumstances of work, etc. Just one small suggestion: so much of bf is emotional. I wonder if it would help if you could spend the first few minutes of pumping (at work) by looking at photo of Hudson, then leaning back and closing eyes and resting. I can well imagine that you might be trying to dictate and catch up while pumping at work (understandable also). Possibly these first few minutes would allow for a better let down and thus more milk. I also imagine that if you try to contribute to feeding of the twins that you milk production is going to increase accordingly. Good luck. Lots of challenges ahead, but also lots of rewards. Hang in there.
Sounds like a growth spurt.
Breastfeeding was SO F'ING HARD FOR ME !!!!! I produce NOTHING.
With the twins I produced enough for one.
I was also taking domperidone. It's the BEST STUFF and ACTUALLY works. I did the teas and the fenugreek...NOTHING. I seriously tried EVERYTHING. The domperidone is just as expensive as buying formula. We did it until the boys were 5 months and then called it quits.
I really think that people who tell you that it's NATURAL and you must not be doing something right, ie...latch, pumping enough, blah blah blah....had boobs that produced just fine.
I personally think you sound like you are doing a wonderful job. I produced even less than you.
My suggestion is beer and or domperidone. The beer is just to help relax you after working for 11 days straight.
Oh and my wife gets up with our kids too. You are a rock star :)
I have no personal breastfeeding experience, but it sounds like you are doing everything you can. One of the OB's at work, who is 78yrs old and still works sun up to sun down~bless him, recommends the beer thing. I think he says 2 beers, 2 or 3 nights a week.
wow, go you! I know all too well how much bf can suck. the frustrated hudson? that was riley each and every time i tried to get her to latch!
angele took domperidone to try and induce lactation and it didn't work. but you should be able to get some prescribed to you, no? blessed thistle was the other natural remedy she took, along with the fenugreek.
Hey there,
Yeah- lots of agreement on what's already been said...
Nursing is WAY harder than people lead you to believe- I nursed my son for 17 months- when I had to leave him to go to work alone (he went with me for the first year) I had to do the whole pump during the day thing.
What worked best for me?
WATER. Lots of it. I would down a huge bottle of water right before I pumped. Worked like a charm. And I gazed a Baby G's picture- imagined him nursing instead of the stupid whirring pump.
And the beer at home is a great idea- a little works pretty well.
Good luck!
Are you comfortable bed sharing? My little guy and I stake our claim on the daybed and he spends about 5 hours suckling me (he gets put down for about 4 hours in his own bed and then when he awakes he and I move to the daybed). This has honestly been the ONLY thing that has upped my supply to a decent amount. I sleep against the rear of the daybed and then place a mesh guardrail across the front. He lies side-by-side with me and just nurses all night until it is time to wake. I spend most of the time asleep. Not all people are comfortable with this, but it can really ramp up production since he spends a crazy amount of time on the breast. After doing this for a few weeks, I could actually pump - something I could not do in the past.
here's something that worked for me - a heating pad on my boobs. it really helps mine fill back up, so i use it before i go to express and then after i express. we have a thermaphore(sp?) which is wet heat...it's a little expensive but so awesome. as an added bonus you can use it on your tired shoulders...! other than that...i was a poor milk producer to begin with but the more i nursed and expressed the better it got, even when baby indigoscot goes through growth spurts. i don't think you can do any more than you're currently doing though! good luck and kudos for keeping at it, i know how tough it is!
How's it going now? I know all too well how sleep and emotions get all intertwined... all 5 of you are going through so much together already! Hope some of the suggestions are working for you - I've heard a bit of beer suggested as a nursing strategy pretty often. And jeez, why not? I mean, when is beer ever recommended by anyone as a possible solution? What a great opportunity -- you're all so busy and each moment is so organized just to make it all happen...maybe the beer is just an invitation to sit down for a sec and put your feet up... I know always always easier said than done. Hope you find something that works for you :-)
And also, every time I say 'domperidone' in my head, I think of Dom Perignon, the champagne ;-) Hey, that might help too! Good luck. And I LOVE the thought that you could both breastfeed the kids. It used to be a communal activity, not an individual-mom thing. That's such a great thought!
One thing my LC told me was that in order for the fenugreek to be effective, I should smell like maple syrup (sniff your skin). And it could take a much higher dose (3 pills 3x a day) than recommended on the bottle (1 pill 3x a day) for that to happen. Once I got more of it into me, my supply definitely improved, although my daughter still had weight gain issues so I ended up supplementing.
Anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there in case you were taking lower levels of the fenugreek.
On a totally unrelated note, do you know of a gay or gay-friendly pediatrician in Portland, Oregon? There is another lesbian mom blogger having a hard time finding one.
I just wanted to mention this, because I had a supply issue recently... I went from pumping like 30 oz in a day to 10 oz suddenly! Then on the message board that I frequent, a member recommended that I change the membranes on my breastpump. I changed them & immediately saw a big increase in my supply again. Just thought I would mention it in case you haven't changed the membranes lately...
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